In US now?? Cool- I need to keep informed of these things- sorry to anyone I confused!!
I'll start it with "As far as I'm aware" from now on!

Kid- As far as I'm aware- They built 4, there is one Phase 4 that lives in QLD (or did), here in Oz, one a proto-type in NSW, one destroyed in a rally, and another destroyed in a car accident. Something along the lines of too much power, media bitching of "Deathcars", or something, and the government banned high performance cars way back in the 70's ......... That's why that didn't go into proper production. (Got that from a mag I read once!!- I'm not that smart!!!)
Sorry- never heard of a movie called 'Vanishing point', might hunt it up and find out for ya (although you guys make a lot better quality shows with an actual story line in most of them!)

Merc- When you find your 40-grand, want to see if I put mine in there too??

Muscle Car Definition

Perhaps the most common question people have is what exactly is a muscle car. The term wasn't even used until the late 1970s, in the 1960s there were often called "Super Cars" if called anything at all. Therefore, the actual definition of a muscle car, or which models were muscle cars, is a topic that is often disputed. Here is the general interpretation of what is a muscle car and what cars qualify, and which don't.


Vehicle Muscle Car? Classification Notes
AMC AMX Yes Pony Car Even though it only has two seats, because it is based on the Javalin, it is a muscle car
AMC Javalin No Pony Car Only the AMX variation or big block V8s are considered muscle cars
Buick GS Yes Intermediate Muscle Car Based on Buick Skylark
Buick Riviera No Personal Luxury Car Too expensive and big
Buick Skylark (non-GS) No Intermediate Car Only GS versions are considered muscle cars
Buick Wildcat No Fullsize Car Too large
Chevrolet Camaro Yes Pony car Only SS and Z28 models are considered muscle cars
Chevrolet Chevelle SS Yes Intermediate Muscle Car Only SS versions are considered muscle cars
Chevrolet Chevelle (non-SS) No Intermediate Only SS versions are considered muscle cars
Chevrolet Corvette No Sports Car The two seats, fiberglass body, and high price make it a sports car.
Chevrolet Impala SS Yes Fullsize Muscle Car Only SS versions are considered muscle cars
Chevrolet Monte Carlo No Personal Luxury Too expensive
Chevrolet Nova Yes Compact Car Only SS versions are considered muscle cars
Chrysler 300 Letter Cars No Personal Luxury Way too expensive and luxurious
Dodge Challenger Yes Pony Car Only R/T versions are considered muscle cars
Dodge Charger Yes Intermediate Muscle Car Only R/T versions are considered muscle cars
Dodge Coronet Yes Fullsize Muscle Car Only R/T versions are considered muscle cars
Dodge Dart Yes Compact Only Darts with 383 or 440 engines are considered muscle cars
Dodge Daytona Yes Specialty Muscle Cars -
Dodge Super Bee Yes Intermediate Muscle Car -
Ford Fairlane / Torino GT/Cobra Yes Intermediate Muscle Car Only GT and Cobra models are considered muscle cars
Ford Galaxie Yes Fullsize muscle Only Galaxies with 390 engines or larger are considered muscle cars
Ford Mustang Yes Pony Car GTs, Mach 1's and Boss Mustangs are considered muscle cars
Mercury Comet / Cyclone Yes Intermediate Only GTs and Cyclones are considered muscle cars
Mercury Cougar Yes Pony Car Only GTs, Eliminators, and Boss engine models are considered muscle cars
Oldsmobile 442 Yes Intermediate Muscle Car -
Oldsmobile Cutlass No Intermediate Only 442 models are considered muscle cars
Plymouth Barracuda No Pony car Only 'Cuda models are considered muscle cars
Plymouth 'Cuda Yes Pony car 'Cudas with 340s are generally not considered muscle cars
Plymouth Duster Yes Compact Muscle Car Only Dusters with 340s are considered muscle cars
Plymouth GTX Yes Intermediate Muscle Car -
Plymouth Road Runner Yes Intermediate Muscle Car -
Plymouth Superbird Yes Specialty Muscle Car -
Pontiac Catalina 2+2 Yes Fullsize Muscle Car Only Catalinas with 400+ cid engines are considered muscle cars
Pontiac Firebird Yes Pony Car Only Firebirds with 400 cid engines are considered muscle cars
Pontiac Grand Prix No Personal Luxury Too expensive
Pontiac GTO Yes Intermediate Muscle Car The first true muscle car




Strict Definition of a Muscle Car:


A muscle car, by the strictest definition, is an intermediate sized, performance oriented model, powered by a large V8 engine, at an affordable price. Most of these models were based on "regular" production vehicles. These vehicles are generally not considered muscle cars, even when equipped with large V8s. If there was a high performance version available, it gets the credit, and not the vehicle that it was based on.

Examples: Buick GS, Chevrolete Chevelle SS, Dodge Charger R/T, Ford Torino/Cobra, Plymouth GTX, Plymouth Road Runner, Oldsmobile 442, Pontiac GTO


Fullsize Muscle Car:


The strict definition only includes intermediate size vehicles. In reality, performance oriented intermediate size vehicles didn't appear until 1964. Before then, manufacturers took existing fullsize vehicles and added extra performance to them. Because of this, the early fullsize performance vehicles are generally considered muscle cars.

Examples: Chevrolet Impala (SS only), Ford Galaxie (with 390 + cid engines only), Dodge Coronet (R/Ts only), etc.


Pony Cars and Compact Cars:


In addition to fullsize and intermediate muscle cars, a number of smaller vehicles started appearing on the automotive performance scene. These new "pony cars" and compact cars are generally considered muscle cars only if they have the top of the line performance engines and options.

Examples: Chevrolet Camaro (SS and Z28 models only), Ford Mustang (GTs and Boss only), Plymouth 'Cudas (no Barracudas), AMC Javelin, etc.


Personal Luxury Cars and Luxury Cars:


Although there were several personal luxury vehicles with performance engines and options, their heavy weight and high sticker prices went against the low cost performance definition of muscle cars. Therefore, they are not considered muscle cars.

Examples: Buick Riviera, Chrysler 300 Letter Cars, Pontiac Grand Prix, Monte Carlo etc.


Two Seat Sports Cars:


Two seat sports cars such as the Chevrolet Corvette and the Ford Thunderbird are not considered muscle cars due to their high price and specialty nature. The only exception is the AMC AMX as it was relatively cheap, and was based on the AMC Javalin pony car.

Examples: AMC AMX, etc.




All material © Copyright 2003 by Musclecarclub.com

great post blue malibu!!

movies:
Vanishing point was an american movie..the plot was vague,twisted,and basically sucked.car delivery guy must deliver car in so many hours blah blah blah.
the car action was pretty decent tho.
they used a challenger.
they did a remake of this one too,but i havent seen it yet.
other Great movies,were
Bullit
Dirty Mary,Crazy Larry.
Gone in 60 Seconds>>(the Original,Not that Flaky remake with nick cage)
Mad Max>in the movie,when they go to the basement Garage,to first see max`s new ride,Look Carefully in the background,use the slow-mo if possible,some Interesting stuff there
The Road Warrior
Ronin
The French Connection

any of those will make ya wanna get in the car and go for a "ride"

Blue -
Those are VERY narrow definitions. Are you telling me that a 290 or 304 Javelin is not a muscle car just because it doesn't have a 390 or 401? Rediculous. How about a 351 powered Mustang MINUS the Mach 1 stickers?

What about all the 327 Camaros and Chevelles out there? Much better than the 350 powered versions IMHO. Or the 302 Camaro that was made to homolgate the motor/body combo (just like a BOSS 302 Mustang)?

All the vehicles you list are option package vehicles. Yes they make the car more valuable, but I don't think they are the only ones that can be considered "true" muscle cars.

You don't even list a Shelby Mustang there . An oversight, or is it just because they 289s(that made OVER 1 HP per cube)? What about GT500s?

I would think a Formula S Barracuda would make the cut since they had bigger(not huge mind you) engine options.

And someone correct me, but a GS Buick was a handling/sticker package, and the Skylark line in general could be had with bigger motors?

BTW little known fact, a Javelin is a stretched AMX *NOT* the other way around . It was just released first, because AMC wanted to release the 390 mid year and debut it in the AMX. And you shot your own definition to pieces by saying only big block AMCs are muscle cars - There are no AMC blocks, only AMC V8s.

About the Corvette/Thunderbird, it's not the two seats and high price that make it a sports car, its the two seats and lack of a roof. Sports cars "in the strictest sense" are two seat roadsters.

How about if you ordered a 428 Galaxie, but leave off the XL and 7Litre trim?

What about a Chevelle with a 396 instead of a 454(the SS package)?



7T1 -
You're right, I was getting confused with the movie titles. Vanishing Point was supposed to be one of those surrealistic quasi-art movies. That's why most people didn't really dig it too much.

The remake sucked.

I had one of those plain-Jane galaxies with the 428...Talked my way out of a ticket because it was boring looking..It ran 14.90s back in 73..Not too bad..

__________________
I love the smell of burnt rice

Blue Malibu, the term "muscle car" was indeed around in the muscle car era. And that was long before the late '70s. Who compiled this list? There are so many things wrong with it, I don't know where to start. So let me just address some examples of the more flagrant misinformation.
So only an SS or Z28 Camaro is a muscle car? So a plain jane 427 copo car is just another Camaro then, I guess....
The Corvette, true, is always first and foremost a sports car. But few fans of American V8 brute horsepower would deny the best examples muscle status as well.
The Coronet (R/T, Super Bee) is a full sized car? Uh, I don't think so, not in that era. But when you mentioned the Super Bee you called it an intermediate. Hmmmm.
The early, pre-low compression 340 Darts, were always considered muscle cars. Most, especially the light 68-69 Darts, were very capable of a solid 14 second 1/4 mile. Oh, and the base engine in the Challenger R/T was the 340 and you said it was a muscle car and said the same thing about 340 Dusters and Demons. Be consistent.

Quote- "Plymouth Barracuda No Pony car Only 'Cuda models are considered muscle cars"

The so-named "Cuda" Barracudas did not come along until 1970, So a '69 440 Barracuda is not a muscle car either then, by this definition. And once again (for all who get your misinformation about this era from the inaccurate info I've seen in current periodicals who purport to be experts) some muscle cars were also pony cars, some pony cars were also muscle cars. `
No Galaxie with only a 390 was ever considered a muscle car. The 428s were marginal but by the time they came along, the smaller muscle cars had already taken over. The 406 and 427 ones from 62-64 would be the only ones, really. I know there was supposedly a '65 Thunderbolt, full sized Ford. But I've never actually seen or heard of one anywhere in all these years. But I digress.
In '70 when the smaller Grand Prix was introduced, there was a 428 engine offered, the SJ model. These were strong running and were considered luxury muscle cars at the time.
Yes, there was an original, strict definition of the muscle car, but even within that era it had to be expanded and evolve.

__________________
I'll try to be nicer if you'll try to be less stupid....

Seems to me that everytime someone posts a "definition" of the term "muscle car", they are told that they are wrong. Well if those of us that actually try to post an "actual" or "correct definition" are so wrong then why don't those of you who say we are wrong tell us what the "real" definition is???
Atleast we try...and I see things in what "Blue Malibu" said that are correct but I do see the mistakes as well, Notorious also makes good points. But rather then just telling us we are wrong...how about giving us your "definition" of a muscle car. Like I have said before, our opinions of what a muscle car is/was may not be the true definition of the term, just opinion. But just because it is someones opinion doesn't make it correct. So I'd love to see the term defined by a realiable source ie: Automotive Expert.

Well, how about this for a start on a definition...

V8 powered vehicle manufactured between 1955 and 1972.

Pony cars would be a sub-class, full size cars another sub class, V8 sports cars still another sub-class.

That's a very vague definition. Not all V8 powered cars made during those years were in the muscle car class.
I consider Road and Track magazine to be a reliable source since they were around during the muscle era. I hope the following will put this debate to rest because I got this info from Road and Track magazine:

Road & Track identified the following models as "musclecars" in 1965:
1964-1965 Pontiac Tempest Le Mans GTO
1965-1975 Buick Riviera Gran Sport
1965-1969 Buick Skylark Gran Sport
1965-1970 Dodge Coronet/Plymouth Belvedere 426-S
1965 Chevrolet Chevelle Malibu SS
1965-1967 Oldsmobile Cutlass 442

Other later muscle cars include the following:
1970-1974 Buick GSX
Chevrolet Chevelle SS
1966-1974 Dodge Charger
1969-1970 Dodge Daytona
1971 Dodge Super Bee
Ford Fairlane (GT & Cobra)
1968-1974 Ford Torino (GT & Cobra)
1968-1971 Oldsmobile 442
Plymouth GTX
1968-1974 Plymouth Road Runner
1970 Plymouth Superbird
1966-1971 Pontiac GTO

Muscle cars are high-performance (4-wheeled motor vehicle; usually propelled by an internal
combustion engine) automobiles made primarily in (The largest city in Michigan and a major Great Lakes port;
center of the United States automobile industry; located in southeastern Michigan on the Detroit river across from Windsor)
Detroit from 1964 to 1974. Car manufacturers placed large V8 engines in
mid-sized cars, giving them quite startling performance and setting off intense competition between manufacturers to produce
the most powerful and extreme machine. The 1973 (An organization of countries formed in 1961 to agree on a common policy for
the production and sale of petroleum) OPEC oil embargo, stricter (Pollution of the atmosphere) air pollution laws and
(Promise of reimbursement in the case of loss; paid to people or companies so concerned about hazards that they have made
prepayments to an insurance company) insurance premiums killed most muscle car models, though they are actively collected
and restored.

Although auto makers such as Chrysler had occasionally experimented with placing a high performance V-8 in a lighter
mid-size platform, and full-size cars such as the Ford Galaxie and Chevrolet Impala had high-performance models,
Pontiac usually gets credit for starting the muscle car trend with its Pontiac GTO, based on the rather more
pedestrian Pontiac Tempest. Spearheaded by Pontiac division president John De Lorean, the GTO proved far more popular
than expected, and inspired a host of imitations and a general trend towards performance, both in the true 'muscle car'
class of intermediate vehicles, and also the smaller pony cars like the Ford Mustang,Plymouth Barracuda and AMC AMX, and
more luxurious and expensive vehicles such as the Buick Riviera.

However, a large part of the appeal behind muscle cars was that they were mostly inexpensive models young drivers could
afford. For instance, Chevrolet placed an extremely large 396 cubic inch (6.5 Liter) engine in its compact Nova. In today's
terms this would be equivalent to attempting to make a Chevy Prizm with a Corvette motor (though the performance gains would
be vastly different in such a project today as smaller, modern engines can use newer technology to produce vastly more power
than their same-sized counterparts from the muscle car era). Mopar also had several low-cost models, such as the Dodge Super
Bee and Plymouth Road Runner.

Between 1964 and 1970, Detroit auto makers were in competition for the bragging rights to the most powerful motor. Power
numbers generally hit their peak in 1970; the Chevelle SS 454 from that year is generally considered to have had the highes
t advertised output, producing 450 horsepower (336 kW) from a 454 cubic inch (7.4 Liter) engine. By 1971, muscle cars began
to fall out of favor and disappear, with one of the last muscle car holdouts being Pontiac's Trans Am 1973 and 1974 SD455
model (while the SD455 was considered the last muscle car, the Trans Am nameplate continued until 2002).

While fast (sometimes extremely fast) in a straight line, most had primitive brakes and suspension (compared with modern
vehicles and also European sports cars of the time), and tires which were inadequate to handle the acceleration and speeds
the engines made capable. These inadequacies have all been to some degree addressed by after-market suppliers, of course.
(end)



If you argue with Road and Track then you are an idiot, how can anyone know more about cars then a magazine that has been test driving/researching them for over 40 years.
A side note: The insurance companies determined what was a muscle car by its weight to advertised horsepower ratio. Now days they don't call them "muscle cars" they call them "high performance cars".

if it hauls ass and looks good....it could be a musclecar>?...super car?...the batmobile?



a weight of 10 lbs horse to weight? and the insurance companies descended...